Anthony Carter was not in the top 5

anthony-carter.jpgOK – I am all for sticking up for a little guy and loving the guy who was there when you were at school, but AC just does not rank that high.   All the records he set have fallen – makes it difficult to claim “all time guy” status and if your “big game” play was against Indiana – Please!   He played for the USFL out of college and never got past 4 in the Heisman ballot.     See AC’s records below. 

Hart will pass him in TDs and all purpose career yards by the end of the season.    I am still going with the current little guy.  My top 10 are:
1. Hart
2. Harmon
3. Woodson (Andrew made a great case)
4. Harbaugh
5.  Brady
6. A.C.
7. Ty Wheatley
8. Braylon Edwards

9. Anthony Thomas

10. Desmond Howard
AC’s Records
*  touchdowns: 40 (now ranks fourth; record held by Anthony Thomas with 56)
*  receptions: 161 (now ranks fourth; record held by Braylon Edwards with 252)
* receiving yards: 3,076 (now ranks second; record held by Braylon Edwards with 3,541)
* touchdown receptions: 37 (now ranks second; record held by Braylon Edwards with 39)
* punt returns: 79 (now ranks second; record held by Steve Breaston with 127)
* punt return yardage: 907 (now ranks second; record held by Steve Breaston with 1,599)
* kickoff returns: 63 (now ranks second; record held by Steve Breaston with 81)
* kickoff return yardage: 1,606 (now ranks second; record held by Steve Breaston with 1,993)

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10 Comments

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10 responses to “Anthony Carter was not in the top 5

  1. cblue

    Baylyff says…..

    If you use stats alone to judge WR’s (especially at Michigan) in either college or the NFL, players in the past will be downgraded simply because teams (seemingly other than Michigan) pass the ball much more today. Anthony Carter was a three-time All-American (the first in nearly 40 years in the Big 10) and his average of 17.4 yards per play was an NCAA record and he scored TD’s one out of every four times he touched the ball. AC made the #1 jersey, establishing a legacy that’s incomparable… 20 years later will people remember Hart’s number, will it be an earned honor to wear his number?

    As for the Heisman, remember that at that time the Heisman trophy was basically a RB award, WR’s and QB’s were not winning it at that time. As for the USFL, is anybody going to say that made Hershel Walker less of a RB? And if we’re gonna bring pro performance, then we’d have to downgrade Desmond because he pretty much sucked at WR in the NFL. And speaking of, no Desmond Howard or Jamie Morris on the top 10 list?

    BTW, I wasn’t at Michigan when AC played…. I’m NOT that old!!! LOL!

  2. cblue

    Kahn says……

    I will take one more shot at defending AC

    Obviously difficult to compare guys in different eras, so I think you got to look at a few different stats besides the stats that Chris showed.
    AC was a player for a coach who hated to throw (unlike today’s coaches). Go back to Nebraska and Oklahoma – when they were dominant in the 70s and 80s, they ran the ball a ton. They ran it with the option or wishbone and they probably averaged 400 yards of rushing per game even in the early 80s. So, does a running back in the modern era get disqualified because he doesn’t put up the same kind of numbers? I think the stats that we may have to look at would include things like – ACs receiving yards as a % of Michigan’s total passing yards; TDs as a % of Michigans passing TDs (I don’t know what those stats are but I would suspect they are pretty impressive). ACs stats can’t be compared to today’s players without the knowledge of these other stats and the recognition that his coach was a Neanderthal passing coach.

    Harmon and Woodson stand alone because they were elite athletes and incredible football players. Their production on the field was beyond sick. Their impact on their team was of the highest magnitude. Both guys could play about 5 different positions and would have been great at all of them. That’s why they’re separate from the rest. I wouldn’t knock AC because of the Heisman balloting. It also remains to be seen how the Heisman voters view Hart this season. He’s put up nice numbers against not very good teams so far.

  3. cblue

    It’s defintely tough to compare eras. I can’t even compare Harmon because I never saw him play, it was a completely different game back then… and I won’t even get into the fact that white RB’s are practically an extinct species, LOL!

  4. cblue

    Sorry guys not convinced. The same reason AC didn’t get many touches was the reason he did so well. You can’t separate the two and say what if…… The stats are the stats. No one expected Michigan to pass under Bo as you correctly point out. As a result, most of the defenses AC faced were run oriented and he was often in one on one situations. Great hands and speed and one on one match ups lead to his exceptional performance. Braylon Edwards never had this advantage and still blew out AC’s career receiving yards by almost 500 yards!!!! You can’t be a top 5 “all time” guy if none of your records are standing.

    • receiving yards: 3,076 (now ranks second; record held by Braylon Edwards with 3,541)

  5. cblue

    Unfortunately, over 40…. My dad was a grad and I was born on campus (university hospital) I have been watching games since the 70’s! However, I have been often accused of having a short term memory (-; I think AC was a great time impact player and is in my top 10, just not my top 5. Here is another top 25 list (somewhat dated – 2005) from Motown Sports that may have more perspective with AC in his top 5, but has Brayon at #3. Some interesting names from the past……

    1. Tom Harmon HB
    2. Charles Woodson DB
    3. Braylon Edwards WR
    4. Bennie Oosterbaan E/WR
    5. Anthony Carter WR
    6. William Heston HB
    7. Benny Friedman QB
    8. Germany Shulz C
    9. Ron Kramer OL
    10. Rick Leach QB
    11. Desmond Howard WR
    12. Harry Newman QB
    13. Jumbo Elliot OL
    14. Bump Elliot HB
    15. Tom Curtis DB
    16. Mark Messner DL
    17. Steve Hutchinson OL
    18. Dave Brown DB
    19. Dan Dierdorf OL
    20. Jim Harbaugh QB
    21. Jamie Morris RB
    22. Albert Benbrook G
    23. Charles Bernard C
    24. Tyrone Wheatley RB
    25. Butch Woolfolk RB

  6. cblue

    Baylyff says…..
    Doesn’t Rich Leach makes anybody’s top 10 list? I actually think Leach might be debatable as Michigan’s best QB, the guy was a 4 year starter and I believe led Michigan to two Rose Bowl and a Orange bowl back in the days when there were a lot fewer bowls. There’s no way on earth I’d put Brady ahead of Leach, but to each their own.

    BTW, just to add on the Heisman thing with AC, the three players ahead of him in the balloting his SR year, Herschel Walker, John Elway and Eric Dickerson.

  7. cblue

    Daily says…
    Just wait until Matt Guttieriz is the next great Patriot’s quarterback and then we can talk about his Michigan career.

  8. cblue

    Feldman says….

    Alright, I don’t know as much about football as you folks, but I do know something about baseball. And there has been a lot of statistical analysis done in baseball comparing players from different eras. It’s pointless to outright compare raw statistics from one era to another when trying to establish “greatness”. The game evolves (lower pitcher’s mound and different stadiums in baseball; changing offenses and bigger, faster players in football), and usually in a way that will flatter the current players if you are looking at raw numbers. Furthermore, as Baylyff alluded, how can you even attempt to make a meaningful comparison of a guy (Harmon) who performed in an era when large classes of the population were excluded from playing?

    So the baseball geeks adjust for different eras by comparing how players performed relative to their peers, while still adjusting for things like stadium and league differential. (In college football, perhaps some important adjustments would be for conference/schedule and type of offense/coaching style.)

    There probably isn’t one person on this thread who thinks that Babe Ruth would hit 714 home runs if he were alive and playing today. But when you compare his performance to what his contemporaries were doing, you see how dominant he truly was.

    As I mentioned, I don’t know a lot about football. Why don’t some of you guys who do come up with the stats of other WRs during the AC era, RBs during the Wheatley/Bush/Hart eras, etc?

    Example: Many of AC’s numbers may have been eclipsed by Braylon, but what were AC’s numbers as a % of offense compared to Braylon (Andrew had mentioned this), and more importantly, where did each rank annually compared to other WRs? When AC was playing, I believe UM played 11 games a season, now it is 12, no? I’m sure there are 20 other factors, so try and account for as many of those as possible.

    Albinson, Baylyff, I hereby deputize you two to get on the case.

  9. cblue

    Swamidoss says…

    More importantly, where’s Dreisbach? Shouldn’t he be in the top 10?

  10. cblue

    I just looked at Leach’s stats again – truly impressive

    CAREER STATISTICS
    Rushing
    Year Games Att Gain Loss Net Gain Ave. Gain Long. Tds
    1975 12 113 663 83 552 4.9 44 5
    1976 12 114 735 97 638 6.0 48 10
    1977 12 115 516 141 375 3.3 21 7
    1978 12 145 803 192 611 4.2 45 12
    Career 48 487 2717 413 2176 4.5 48 34
    ________________________________________
    Passing

    Year
    Games
    Attempts
    Comp.
    Pct.
    Interc.
    Yards
    Long.
    TDs
    1975 12 100 32 .32 12 680 83 3
    1976 12 105 50 .48 8 973 64 13
    1977 12 174 90 .52 9 1348 76 15
    1978 12 158 78 .49 6 1283 65 17
    Career 48 537 250 .47 35 4284 83 48

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